INTERVIEW OF: RICHARD PETER DONOGHUE
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Mr. Donoghue. I told the President myself that several times, in several 5 conversations, that these allegations about ballots being smuggled in in a suitcase and 6 run through the machines several times, it was not true, that we had looked at it, we 7 looked at the video, we interviewed the witnesses, and it was not true.
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The President then continued, there are “more votes than voters.” Somehow 18 Wisconsin came up. I guess he cited Wisconsin and some claim that there were more 19 votes than registered voters in Wisconsin. But I was aware of that allegation, and I said, 20 you know, that was just a matter of them “comparing the 2020 votes cast to 2016 21 registration numbers.” That is “not a valid complaint.”
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So I came in on the 3rd shortly before the 1:00 p.m. call. And DAG Rosen said to 18 me that he had spoken to Jeff Clark apparently just shortly before this. Jeff Clark had 19 told him that he had decided to accept the President’s offer to serve as Acting Attorney 20 General but that Jeff Clark wanted to have one more meeting with Jeff Rosen before he 21 communicated that to the President. So that all happened on Sunday.
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The meeting was set for 6:15. I think we went directly to the White House 2 Counsel’s Office and talked very briefly with Pat Cipollone and Pat Philbin and then had to 3 head to the Oval Office.
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And it was a very blunt, intense conversation that took several 124 1 hours.
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And Jeff Clark certainly was advocating for change in leadership that would put 2 him at the top of the Department, and everyone else in the room was advocating against 3 that and talking about what a disaster this would be.
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Q What were Clark’s purported bases for why it was in the President’s interest 5 for him to step in? What would he do, how would things change, according to Mr. Clark 6 in the meeting? 7 A He repeatedly said to the President that, if he was put in the seat, he would 8 conduct real investigations that would, in his view, uncover widespread fraud; he would 9 send out the letter that he had drafted; and that this was a last opportunity to sort of set 10 things straight with this defective election, and that he could do it, and he had the 11 intelligence and the will and the desire to pursue these matters in the way that the 12 President thought most appropriate.
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And then — and I said something to the effect of, “You’re going to have a huge 25 personnel blowout within hours, because you’re going to have all kinds of problems with 125 1 resignations and other issues, and that’s not going to be in anyone’s interest.” 2 And so the President said, “Well, suppose I do this” — I was sitting directly in front 3 of the President. Jeff Rosen was to my right; Jeff Clark was to my left. The President 4 said, “Suppose I do this, suppose I replace him,” Jeff Rosen, “with him,” Jeff Clark, “what 5 do you do?” And I said, “Sir, I would resign immediately. There is no way I’m serving 6 1 minute under this guy,” Jeff Clark. 7 And then the President turned to Steve Engel, and he said, “Steve, you wouldn’t 8 resign, would you?” And Steve said, “Absolutely I would, Mr. President. You’d leave 9 me no choice.”
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I’m not going to stand for this, I’m not going to be here if this happens either.” 10 Q So he said he would resign or not stand for it, would not be here, if the 11 President made this change. 12 13 A Q Right.