INTERVIEW OF: WILLIAM STEPIEN
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Q Okay. A lot of campaign and messaging experience in there. So when you joined the 2016 Trump campaign, what was your role? A Q A I was the national field director. What does that mean, just generally? Well, generally, it means, making sure that the voter contact operation in 11 the States, the door knocks, the phone calls were being made; voter contact was being 7 12 conducted, measuring, tracking, making sure that the work was being done and reported. 13 It was very much a numbers-based job. Tracking what States were hitting their 14 marks, what States weren’t. Do we need to move resources from State to State to make 15 sure we are hitting our marks. Very much a numbers-based role.
Initially served as national field director of the Trump campaign in 2016.
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Q A Q Correct. When did you become campaign manager for Mr. Trump’s 2020 reelection? Mid-July 2020. Did you have a role with the campaign before that? Were you consulting 21 for them, for example? 22 A I was. I think my official title was senior political adviser. President’s 23 Trump reelection campaign was one of the clients of National Public Affairs. 8 24 Q And what was the nature of that consulting work for them? And how did it 25 change once you became campaign manager? 9 1 A The nature of my role before becoming campaign manager was largely to 2 oversee an operation within the campaign that focused on outreach to States, State 3 Republican parties, State Republican organizations, in preparation for the delegate 4 selection process of the Republican National Convention. 5 After I became campaign manager, my role completely changed and I assumed a 6 much wider portfolio.
How Stepien became the campaign manager of the Trump campaign in 2020.
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And he didn’t have — and we knew — we had more information than probably 1 anyone did in the country at that time about what was going on in Michigan and every 2 State for that matter. And, you know, we relayed that to Rudy. And we asked him, 3 you know, why he thought we were winning or had won. And it was more — it was 4 more based on belief and instinct than numbers or data.
Believes that Giuliani’s opinion that Michigan was won was primarily based on instinct, rather than data.
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Q A Did he show you any numbers or data, evidence at all, at that point? He showed us his tablet, and it was — it was The New York Times. It was 19 just their — just their election night reporting map of the State, you know, that showed, 20 you know, returns by county.
Giuliani trusted the New York Times for the election initially.
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Q That did not change my opinion. And what was your opinion at that point in that conversation with 25 Mr. Giuliani about what was happening in Michigan? 53 54 1 A It was far too early to be making any calls like that. Ballots — ballots were 2 still being counted. Ballots were still going to be counted for days, and it was far too 3 early to be making any proclamation like that.
Giuliani made an early claim that Trump won the election despite claims by the campaign staff.
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Q Were there any conversations where this — with anybody in the campaign 25 where there was a discussion about needing to prove fraud or message fraud, and this is 1 the day after the election? 2 3 4 A Q A Message fraud? Not that I recall. Not that I recall. Okay. What about the need to prove fraud? I mean, for me, no. We were still at a point in the campaign the day after 74 5 election day in which there were still many, many, many votes left to be counted. So, to 6 me, I wouldn’t think from my vantage point that it would be helpful to be trying to prove 7 fraud when Donald Trump could be proved the victor still.
November 4th of the election, there were still too many votes to count and there was no way to determine what the outcome would be, nor was there any belief of widespread voter fraud within the campaign.
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Q And at this point on November 7th, did you have any way of knowing 12 whether those tips or reports were true? 13 A No. I mean, we took all of those reports and shared them with our teams 14 to analyze and make calls and try to get to the bottom of it. 15 Obviously, that’s a process that takes time and effort and it doesn’t happen on the 16 spot. So to the best of our abilities, we were — the campaign was seeking to understand 17 if those reports were true or not. 18 19 But did we get to the bottom of every incoming report? Absolutely not.
November 7th of the election, they were not even close to finding out if these claims of voter fraud were true.
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Q You mentioned that earlier the group had discussed or the idea had come up 16 about conceding — or the President potentially conceding. What was that conversation 17 like before you went to the White House on the 7th? 18 A You know, I specifically recall Hope Hicks talking about that. 19 20 Q A She thought he should concede? Yeah. She was — concede is my word. She expressed a lot of concern 21 about the longer this wore on, the more, you know — you know, impact it would have on 22 his legacy. And she was very, very concerned about that. I don’t know at what point 23 the race was called. And then, you know, all conversations changed to what do we do 24 next and became focused on that.
People close to Trump in his political affairs thought that he should concede, including Hope Hicks, who served as counselor to the President, Trump at the time.